tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post4902708913101903082..comments2023-09-18T04:52:34.622-07:00Comments on Shining Pearls of Something: TLDRsuzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07599102235797825599noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-22194529074305173712012-09-08T09:57:15.374-07:002012-09-08T09:57:15.374-07:00For what it's worth, Jason, Matt is from Texas...For what it's worth, Jason, Matt is from Texas, where citizens generally don't take kindly to their civil rights being trampled, by cops or anyone else. I suspect he is honestly unaware of the scope of what's going on in the rest of the country - where citizens are far more willing to believe that they have to lay down and take it. I think I envy him.<br /><br />Thanks for commenting!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-19983015721093862282012-09-08T09:14:44.894-07:002012-09-08T09:14:44.894-07:00Matt, are you oblivious to the cases of Mr. Vladek...Matt, are you oblivious to the cases of Mr. Vladek Filler in Maine or Mr. Gordon Smith in Delaware?<br /><br />Do contact FLAIR and S.A.V.E. services before stating, "The day that my discretion is taken from me is the day that I bounce my badge across my chief's desk. I'm not unusual in this feeling." Unless you plan of following it with some claim that your average cop is below average intelligence or, morally bankrupt.<br /><br />But, then again I have witnessed "bad" cops kicking the hell out of people laying flat on their stomache offering no resistance while a bunch of "good" cops looked on and did nothing. And, I will bet they don't discuss what a violent asshole Officer X is in the locker-room incase he or she does go down for their criminal behaviour and other cops think maybe you blew the whistle or even were just too co-operative with those investigating the incident.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06334952596787285642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-43341526415141079762012-07-28T07:06:56.907-07:002012-07-28T07:06:56.907-07:00"Do you know that there are probably cops in ..."Do you know that there are probably cops in your department who can only exercise discretion on the sly, and do so by telling DV "offenders" to take a walk so as not to be arrested the moment the magic words "he hit me" are spoken?"<br /><br />Is this what you're hung up on? Did you catch the word "probably?" If so, here's another probability: Unless your district's arrest rate and prosecution rate for VAWA-related offenses are well below the national average, men are "probably" being prosecuted excessively, in disproportion to their crimes. Two of the variables that can affect those rates are dependent upon the police. The first would be department policies that reject the national trend of the last 25 years, and the second is cops on the street who teach men how to protect themselves from the predation that women are being taught by victims' advocates and social workers. <br /><br />To you, is this whole discussion about your own department? Because to me. it's not.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-40222926136732885872012-07-28T05:59:51.898-07:002012-07-28T05:59:51.898-07:00Know what I like about Snopes.com? When Snopes...Know what I like about Snopes.com? When Snopes' staff discredits a claim, they use evidence and cite sources. How passe is THAT? *sigh* Bur I have a weakness for the classics. If the sum total of your refutation is "I'm not like that," then I can see that you are indeed done. (Incidentally I wouldn't read your blog if I had reason to believe you might be unethical or a sleazeball.)<br /><br />You have access to far more precise data that I do. Look up the stats; I will eat my shirt if you don't see a steady increase over the last 20 years, in the rate of arrests for, and aggressive prosecutions of false or exaggerated DV and rape charges.<br /><br />Just about everyone has money to gain by it, from mothers using arrest records to ensure custody of their little pawns, er, children, and the property, child support, alimony, single-head-of-household-tax-credits, and public aid which follow, to the millions of VAWA dollars raked in by state and municipal governments to house and prosecute harmless men (not to mention coaching naive women.)<br /><br />[Have you read Mary Kellett's record? It's a textbook example (albeit extreme to the point of obscenity) of exaggerated DV/rape claims run amok. <br /><br />http://www.fillerfund.com/marykellett.htm<br /><br />The total population of her prosecutorial district is under 80,000; she files charges at a rate of 4-6 times the national average. Or perhaps she's legit and Maine just attracts more than its fair share of perverts...]<br /><br />You still haven't told me exactly what I was wrong about. Was it my hyperbole about "no probable cause?" Yes, I believe I admitted that I was exaggerating, as a means of illustrating the, um, "evolving nature" of probable cause standards. I can't give you specifics without doing quite a bit of research, but I can tell you that 30 years ago, when my dad taught Criminal Justice, I helped him grade hundreds of (multiple choice) tests and I read dozens of essays. The standards for probable cause have broadened and the threshold for arrest has been lowered, in most if not all states. Politically ambitious prosecutors and spiteful greedy women are benefiting from this, and innocent men are being financially, academically, socially and professionally ruined by it.<br /><br />I can guarantee that if VAWA were to be defunded, and if false accusers were to be publicly identified, prosecuted and sentenced to more than probation, this would all stop immediately; the incentives to railroad men would disappear. The rise and fall of "dual arrest" has proven this; it's perfectly OK, even commendable, to spend millions of You-Go-Girl dollars harassing innocent people, AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT WOMEN.<br /><br />Other than a bit of hyperbole, I don't see what I said that was factually incorrect, and I sure don't see what I "redefined." You didn't make either clear, so I don't know what you're arguing against. But yes, whether you work in Mayberry or Gotham City, I was already of the opinion that you're probably not "one of those guys." You don't need to defend your record with your own stats.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-57030252413065808292012-07-27T20:18:43.110-07:002012-07-27T20:18:43.110-07:00And yet again, Suz, I'm being told what we do,...And yet again, Suz, I'm being told what we do, by you. <br /><br />Look, I'm not a cop who plays the "you don't understand, man! You weren't there!" game. I don't pretend that I've got a secret decoder ring to some special point of view that non-police couldn't possibly understand. But I will continue to point out instances when you are claiming that our SOP is different than what I see in practice, and than what I am practicing. Suz, you were wrong. I pointed that out. You redefined, and were wrong again. You accused me of splitting hairs when I said that you were flat-out wrong. You'll believe Snopes and say you were wrong there (reference your next post), but not a licensed practitioner in the field with lots of university study in the subject at hand to boot. <br /><br />So we're done. <br /><br />Oh, for what it's worth, a hip-pocket estimate of my arrest rate is probably closer to 2:1 of men to women for assaults. Maybe a little higher. But I go into every case ready to arrest either party, both parties, or no parties. I don't buy what I heard over the radio, and I demand corroborating evidence over she-said/he-said. I'm not unusual.Matt Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500429239798601210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-9610853909250250932012-07-25T10:16:15.961-07:002012-07-25T10:16:15.961-07:00OK, Matt, if you want to split hairs, let's sp...OK, Matt, if you want to split hairs, let's split hairs. You may not know any cops who have told a man to walk away for a while, but I do. And really, that's neither here not there - anecdotes are not data. <br /><br />Additionally, I'm not surprised that you don't hear any cops grumbling that they had to arrest some poor guy because "The law gave me no choice." If the law explicitly required police to violate the Constitution, police would openly rebel; most cops have pretty high standards.<br /><br />So let's explore just how much I'm exaggerating. You already know that mandatory arrests for misdemeanors are a recent invention. It's technically not unconstitutional, but it's a bit of a gray area, and most such arrests are of men, for DV.*<br /><br />The range of probable cause has also become broader during the last few decades. Police are trained to look for ANYTHING that MIGHT indicate a crime. Police are also trained to "err on the side of caution" in DV cases. If a violent man is left at home and kills his wife, the chief won't be the only one paying for the bad publicity. <br /><br />This is all conveniently rather non-specific though, isn't it? So let's presume for a moment that mandatory arrest laws are fairly innocuous and benign. After all, even the most well-intentioned policies create a little collateral damage. That's just how the cookie crumbles. Now, since at least 70% of domestic violence is mutual, shouldn't all domestic abusers be arrested? (It is mandatory, after all.) Some states thought that was a good and fair idea, so they instituted "dual arrest" policies. <br /><br />And we all know what happened when the female arrest rate rose by over 400%, don't we? Women's advocates stepped up on their soapboxes and shouted, "You stop that! You can't go around jailing women willy-nilly, on pissy misdemeanor charges! You're disrupting their lives!" And the policy gods hung their heads in shame and said, "Oh. You're right. We're so sorry. We'll go back to only jailing MEN willy-nilly, on pissy misdemeanor charges. You don't mind, do you, if we disrupt THEIR lives?" <br /><br />Yeah. Innocuous and benign. Indeed.<br /><br />Are you actually surprised that some of us are standing on soapboxes and shouting, "Stop that! You can't go around jailing MEN willy-nilly, on pissy misdemeanor charges!" <br /><br />You can consider it "silly" if you want. I don't. <br /><br /><br />*Possibly not most; there's always "drunk and disorderly" and such.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-1077347981529587612012-07-25T03:09:10.331-07:002012-07-25T03:09:10.331-07:00No officers are required to make an arrest simply ...No officers are required to make an arrest simply upon the outcry of domestic violence: they must find probable cause to make the arrest. <br /><br />You said, <i>"Do you know that there are probably cops in your department who can only exercise discretion on the sly, and do so by telling DV 'offenders' to take a walk so as not to be arrested the moment the magic words 'he hit me' are spoken?"</i><br /><br />No, but if you'll whistle a few bars, I could probably fake it. Suz, you said something silly, there. Are you willing to back off that, now? I know exactly what criteria my fellow officers use for making an arrest, because by and large, we tend to discuss every case. Never once in my career have I heard an officer mutter "man, I HAD to make the arrest; the law gave me no choice!" <br /><br />The day that my discretion is taken from me is the day that I bounce my badge across my chief's desk. I'm not unusual in this feeling.Matt Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500429239798601210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-35820746080662794772012-07-24T13:56:23.607-07:002012-07-24T13:56:23.607-07:00I'm so sorry, Janie. I'm sorry for what y...I'm so sorry, Janie. I'm sorry for what you went through, and I'm sorry that so many women have misused the limited resources that were allocated to keep people like you SAFE from men Like Dr. X. YOU needed the help that they stole for themselves. <br /><br />And I'm really, really sorry if this post is hurtful to you. I hope you understand that you are the polar opposite of what I'm griping about.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-34277443752149040312012-07-24T13:35:16.019-07:002012-07-24T13:35:16.019-07:00Yes, I do want to say that a lot of complainers ha...Yes, I do want to say that a lot of complainers have no clue about abuse, and I'm crying now.Janie Junebughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10573607241326291404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-25398864056362242382012-07-24T08:22:30.688-07:002012-07-24T08:22:30.688-07:00Sorry, I thought I made it clear that VAWA doesn&#...Sorry, I thought I made it clear that VAWA doesn't REQUIRE the curtailing of rights, it merely ALLOWS it. (Then again, only half of the states have mandatory-arrest-for-DV policies. Maybe your state doesn't.) Coincidentally though, VAWA does provide financial and political rewards when this occurs. <br />DV charges (against either sex, of course) generate federal grant money. Federal grant money generates local "crime-fighting" jobs. Seems to me that a surfeit of DV arrests could be rather profitable. And a reputation for being "tough on crime" could get some folks re-elected. <br /><br />But we know politicians are far too honorable to consider such factors, don't we?<br /><br />Thanks for the hotlink though; I missed that one, and I'll add it to the post. If more people learn how VAWA actually works, it might be repealed or at least rewritten. My sympathies to the government and quasi-government employees who lose their jobs due to lack of funding. (sad-face)<br /><br />BTW, where's the Violence Against Men Act? The Violence Against Children Act? The Violence Against the Elderly Act? The Violence Against the Disabled Act? Are they not as worthy of protection?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-87793777144821211232012-07-24T00:05:58.425-07:002012-07-24T00:05:58.425-07:00It would really have been a more thorough recap if...It would really have been a more thorough recap if you had included the <a href="http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-103hr3355enr/pdf/BILLS-103hr3355enr.pdf" rel="nofollow">hotlink</a> that I provided to the text of VAWA, which in all its 356 pages of text does not provide a single provision for requiring that an accused 4th Amendment rights be curtailed, and certainly doesn't support this statement of yours to me: <br /><br /><i>"Is it OK with you that since the passage of VAWA, the 4th amendment no longer applies to males? How many men has your department arrested and jailed, without probable cause, because an arrest is now required to follow ANY accusation? Do you know that there are probably cops in your department who can only exercise discretion on the sly, and do so by telling DV "offenders" to take a walk so as not to be arrested the moment the magic words "he hit me" are spoken?"</i>Matt Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500429239798601210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-45572305521792194292012-07-23T18:23:41.631-07:002012-07-23T18:23:41.631-07:00It's real, Janie. I wouldn't deny that, an...It's real, Janie. I wouldn't deny that, and your marriage is the type I was thinking about when I said it's a component in systematic abuse. My point was that it's a tricky issue, and it's been made more complicated by our "Hey, I'm a victim!" culture.<br /> <br />How do you feel about women who claim to be neglected and emotionally abused because their husband work 70 hours a week, and don't have time to help with housework and childcare? No cheating, no addiction, no yelling, no hitting, just the absence required to pay for the house and/or car she just had to have. Do you want to roll your eyes and count to ten before saying very quietly, "You, Lady, have NO. Idea. what 'abuse' really is."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-31653222114999707612012-07-23T17:58:37.949-07:002012-07-23T17:58:37.949-07:00I don't know what to say, Suz, except that I w...I don't know what to say, Suz, except that I was threatened with marital rape, and it totally turned me off to sex with X. But it was all part of his game of controlling me and my feelings.<br /><br />Love,<br />JanieJanie Junebughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10573607241326291404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-53527688160040315072012-07-23T13:09:26.319-07:002012-07-23T13:09:26.319-07:00Thanks, Coffeypot. YOU rock.Thanks, Coffeypot. YOU rock.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896718673192738974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3697201505856242009.post-20127630474365136392012-07-23T12:54:59.930-07:002012-07-23T12:54:59.930-07:00Like religion and politics, the subject of rape in...Like religion and politics, the subject of rape in any form is centered around the persons belief system and experiences. All of you made excellent points and some pretty stupid ones. And I have to admit, he sees if in a totally different light as he is the one who deals first hand with the victims. That doesn't make him right. Just that he experiences things most of us will never have to deal with. And all the reading and references, who says they are right? Every writer has a message they want to bring out. So what ever you read that is pro your stance, you can also find just as many anti comments to your stance. Other than the fun of bantering, all of you are beating a dead horse. Everyone's mind is made up and will argue their point till the cows come home. But it was a good read and I did pick up on some stuff I never thought of before. You rock!Coffeypothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02944074653548750642noreply@blogger.com